Lieutenant Colonel Valcocean Littles - njleg.state.nj.us

1 C O N F I D E N T I A LINTERVIEWofLieutenant Colonel Valcocean Littlesfor theSENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEEF ebruary 6, 20012:00 Room 2 State House AnnexTrenton, New JerseyPRESENT AT INTERVIEW:Eric H. Jaso, Esq. (Special Counsel to the Committee)Jo Astrid Glading, Esq. (Democratic Counsel to the Committee)Stephen Holden, Esq. (Democratic Counsel to the Committee)* * * * * * * *C O N F I D E N T I A LC O N F I D E N T I A LTABLE OF CONTENTS PageLieutenant Colonel Valcocean Littles (Retired)New Jersey State Police1 Jeffrey J. Miller, Attorney General1 Allison Accurso, Attorney General1rs: 1 - 1101MR. ERIC JASO, Esq.: Can we start? Colonel Littles -- That is the proper way to address you, I I E U T E N A N T C O L O N E L V A L C O C E A N L I T T L E S:Yes, JASO: My name, as I said before, is Eric Jaso.

2 I m an associate at thefirm of Latham and Watkins. Michael Chertoff, who is a member of Lathamand Watkins, has been appointed by the Senate Judiciary Committee of theState of New Jersey to investigate racial profiling and other related issues in theState of New Jersey, and that s why we are here. And we appreciate yourmaking yourself Colonel Littles : JASO: Let me first administer the you would stand and raise your right hand--(Oath administered)If we could just go around the room and each attorney might identifyhimself, GLADING: I m Jo Glading. I m staff counsel for the SenateDemocratic HOLDEN: Steve Holden, outside and staff counsel for the SenateDemocratic S S I S T A N T A T T O R N E Y G E N E R A L J E F F R E Y J.

3 M I L L E R:Jeffrey Miller, Assistant Attorney S S I S T A N T A T T O R N E Y G E N E R A L A L L I S O N A C C U R S O:Allison Accurso, Assistant Attorney JASO: And we also have two staff members who are assisting in the2recording of this me begin, Colonel Littles , if I may-- And I apologize for, again,mispronouncing your name after you-- Lieutenant Colonel Littles : Not a JASO: --instructed me carefully as how to do let me first start by asking you what your educational backgroundis and then your employment background and Colonel Littles : I have a bachelor s degree fromWilliam Paterson College and a master s degree from William PatersonCollege. I completed the course work and the comprehensive exam for a sociology at Fordham University -- never did the far back in terms of work?

4 MR. JASO: Well, we re mostly interested in your work with the NewJersey State Police, so if you could just-- Lieutenant Colonel Littles : JASO: --focus on the police Colonel Littles : I began my State Police career in1967 and proceeded through the rank structure from the rank of trooper -- aroad trooper, in fact, working out of the Central Jersey area for approximatelya year and a half. I then was promoted from detective, and I went into thenarcotic bureau, where I worked for approximately, I guess, 10 years. I wasthen transferred to the official corruption unit operating out of the CriminalJustice building for approximately five years or so. I was then transferred toDivision headquarters working in recruiting and research unit. Thereafter, Ibecame the affirmative action JASO: Could you specify what years these are, if you can recall?

5 You were official corruption-- Lieutenant Colonel Littles : Approximately JASO: Colonel Littles : I went to the corruption JASO: And then-- Lieutenant Colonel Littles : And it was approximately 85that I went to Division headquarters -- Administration Section within therecruiting and research unit. I remained there until 1990 in differentcapacities when I was promoted to captain in early 1990 and made theaffirmative action officer for the Division of State Police. That was a veryshort period of time, approximately a month or two or thereabout. And I wastransferred to the Records and Identification Section and assigned there as theassistant section supervisor. Approximately two or three months thereafter, Iwas promoted to major, and I became the section supervisor for the Recordsand Identification GLADDING: What years was this?

6 I m JASO: I think we re still in 1990. Is that right? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : two years there and I was transferred, as a major, to theDivision staff section as the section supervisor. That took us to 1994 when Iwas promoted to Lieutenant Colonel . And I became the executive officer forthe Division of State Police -- one of the Lieutenant Colonels in the Divisionof State JASO: How many are there?4 Lieutenant Colonel Littles : There are two. There were twoat that time. I believe it s the was a period of one year, approximately. I was transferred next to--MR. JASO: That s about 94 to Colonel Littles : -- 95--MR. JASO: Colonel Littles : --to the deputy superintendent sposition in 95. And I remained there until retirement, August 1, of GLADING: Nineteen hundred, ninety-seven, did you say?

7 Lieutenant Colonel Littles : JASO: Thirty Colonel Littles : Thirty JASO: Okay. Let me start by showing you a document, if I , I need to ask one question before we begin. One of the termsthat we will use -- that will come up in this questioning is the term racialprofiling. And just so that we re clear and on the same page as to what thatterm means, I would like you to define what your understanding is of that termas you sit here today and whether that definition, in your own mind, haschanged over Colonel Littles : Truthfully, I ve never given itenough thought to reduce it down to a personal definition, for lack of a betterdescription. I think, more than anything, it depends on who s saying it andwhat they re talking about at a given time, because people use that term tomean different things, depending on their point of reference.

8 I have not, in mymind, made up a definition of JASO: Well, do you have a definition that was, shall we say to yourunderstanding, the commonly understood definition around the time of yoursenior positions, let s say, from 1990 to the time you Colonel Littles : The term, as I recall, racialprofiling was relatively new. And probably not 1990, but more around 1994or 1995 probably -- or perhaps even later-- Often, when people use the termracial profiling, they are referring to criminal investigation or otherwise ofbeing stopped because of their race. But also, a profile can mean a series ofdescriptions, characteristics, factors, variables. A profile is really, in my mind --is really a set of descriptions. But in the way that it s often used, I thinkpeople refer to it as, They stopped me because of my race.

9 MR. JASO: Are you familiar with the term law enforcement profiling? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : JASO: And is that something distinct from racial profiling? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : Yes, it JASO: And how is that different? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : Much the same as I indicated justminutes previous. A profile-- Racial profiling, is obviously -- in someone smind is one thing, but law enforcement profiling has to do with a series ofcharacteristics that you pursue based upon the type of investigation that you JASO: And what type of characteristics, in general, are used in thatcontext? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : In addition to what the personlooks like and how they dress, their manners of acting and reacting, where6they re located -- the geographical location of where they hang or where they redoing business or where they re failing to do business is just a series of all thevarious information that you can gather, relative to the type of investigationthat you re JASO: Is law enforcement profiling, as you ve described it,something that you were familiar with throughout your career in the Police,and if not, when did you become familiar with it?

10 Lieutenant Colonel Littles : The term law enforcement, again,profiling, is also, to my knowledge, relatively recent. But the fact is that we diddo that throughout my police career, mainly in investigations. And it has todo with various things you look for, depending upon the type of crime thatyou re investigating or observing or attempting to observe. But that term,again, is a relatively new JASO: When you were in narcotics as a detective back in the, Iguess, late 60s, early 70s-- Was profiling, even if it was not, and I mean lawenforcement profiling-- Was that a technique that was used back then? Lieutenant Colonel Littles : JASO: Any other preliminary questions? (no response)I ve handed the witness a document that is apparently a press releasefour pages in length, bearing the Bates numbers OAG-3466 through I could ask you to just take a look at that.